Human Conversation with Jazz Rasool

Kaumudi Goda
2 hours ago
28 min read

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtR-ZZm2dbA

Get To Know Our Guest:

Jazz Rasool

Jazz Rasool is a British-based scientist, executive coach, and researcher recognized for his pioneering work in Industry 5.0, AI coaching, and human–machine collaboration. He is the founder of the AI Coaching Alliance, a global initiative advancing ethical, humanity-first approaches to artificial intelligence in coaching, and the author of Coaching 5.0, a groundbreaking work integrating AI, the metaverse, and biometrics into coaching practice.

With more than two decades of coaching experience, Jazz has blended science, technology, and human development to create innovative tools such as the Atmascope Resonance Engine, designed to help individuals discover their life purpose. His collaborations include work with NASA on space training technologies and contributions to future-focused programs on AI ethics, 3D/VR learning, and immersive education.

A TEDx speaker, RSA Fellow, and EMCC Senior Practitioner, Jazz serves as an advisor to techUK, the Association for Coaching, the EMCC, and the Association for Business Psychologists. He was recognized as a Top AI Influencer in 2025 for his thought leadership in Coaching 5.0, which continues to shape the future of coaching and human-centric innovation worldwide.

HIGHLIGHTS & TAKEAWAYS:

KG: You've had such an interesting career as a researcher, innovator, advisor, speaker, coach, mentor in such diverse fields as industry 5.0, innovation, technology, coaching, to name just a few. Is there a red thread that ties all of it together? What is the driving force behind all that you do?
JAZZ: I feel it's a curiosity and a sense of wonder and a desire to, first of all, bring things alive within myself and bring myself to life. And lastly, it's about paying all those things forward to other people, helping other people get curious, cultivate a sense of wonder, work on things that bring them to life. And again, lead them to pay it forward.
JAZZ: The reason I'm a polymath and I've been involved in all of those things is because I always had a sense of wonder about things. I never lost my sense of wonder. And wonder and curiosity work very closely with each other.
JAZZ: When your curiosity reaches a certain threshold, you start to experience a sense of wonder about things. And it's the same in reverse. If you have a sense of wonder that reaches a certain threshold, you will get curious about things. And it drives you not down a fixed path.
KG: You were an astrophysicist working with such esteemed organizations as NASA. What drew you to the things that speak so deeply to me and are such a call of time today? Ethics and psychology and working with human minds. It's a fascinating journey for a scientist to be walking this path well before it was identified as the crisis of the time. Tell me the journey to that?
JAZZ: I suppose I've always been drawn to life in all of its different forms, here on Earth, certainly, in the ecosystems that exist out there, in the environment, in jungles and deserts, in the Arctic, for example. And after a while, you take that idea of going beyond your imagination and you start to be interested in life beyond this world.
JAZZ: My journey into astronomy and then into astrophysics into space was actually triggered by me being bullied in school because as a kid, I must have been about 11 or 12 years old. And I went to get as far away as I could from the bullies. In my innocent mind, I thought the furthest place I can get is in outer space.
JAZZ: I decided to fight back against the bullies because I thought I'm that thing which I'm trying to reach for, I can't reach it if I let these people get to me and I'm crushed here before I get a chance to even fly. So I did put a stop to those things and then the following year my grades went up, I moved up into the highest classes, I got academic awards and you know it sparked something really interesting in me. It made me start to have a sense of this potential in me that I'd never seen.
JAZZ: I began to wonder what, if you could put a ruler or some kind of measure against someone and say, right now you have only manifested 20 % of your potential. There's another 80 % to go. If someone told you that, then people would either bend at the knee and just feel crushed. Or they go, wow, there's another four times more potential in me. And one of the first things I did many years ago was I brought together the different models of psychology from other various cultures and integrate them into a single model to help understand human development and potential in the mind. And I encoded the models into an AI platform. And this was in 2008. And one of the first things I wanted to do was identify based on people's skills and their alignment, where are they on that measure?
JAZZ: If people could see not just how much potential they haven't realized yet, but they could see specifically where they not realizing their potential and where they might even be going against themselves and not being true to themselves, then that's the target for coaching. That's the target for mentoring. But you've got to do it in a way which is respectful of what that person can take because some people are not ready to grow and they need to acquire certain experiences before they're ready to grow.
JAZZ: If you're a man of substance or you're a woman of substance, then that's something that can be shaped, right? But if you're not a person of any substance at all, There's nothing to say, there's nothing to get a grip on, right? So part of the journey in coaching is to help people start to build substance in their character and in their life. And part of that is about being true to themselves and discovering what it is that they need to be true to. What is the potential that they've got to realize? And ethics is fundamentally about that for me. It's about helping people discover what it is that they need to stay true to.
JAZZ: When someone does an injustice to themselves and they're not being true to themselves, technically they are being unethical with themselves. The most ethical thing you can ever do is to be true to yourself and true specifically to the humanity within you that you share with other people.
JAZZ: So ethics comes into coaching and mentoring because it helps people to connect in to the things that they need to be true to. But it also highlights where the potential is that must be manifested. It's an injustice if someone has potential and for some reason it's suppressed or for some reason it's not resourced. As a result, that individual stays a caterpillar and never becomes a butterfly.
KG: This is my running theory and I've noticed many times the most compassionate and caring people are the ones who were harmed themselves. And in that grief and hurt, they found incredible sensitivity and compassion towards others.
JAZZ: As soon as you have that awakening, that someone's not who you think they are, then it's you know, kind of duty within you to no longer fuel the fire of the previous prejudice that you actually had. And because of that, I wanted to start working in a world which didn't have prejudices. And the worst kind of prejudice is a prejudice a person has towards themselves. You know, If they believe within themselves that they're not good enough, they've got imposter syndrome, there's all these things going on. And the opposite is true as well. They can have a prejudice where they think too much of themselves too, and they're arrogant and narcissistic. But if you can find a sweet spot, a place of grace between how humble you can be and how noble you can be then I think that's a magical place where you can actually grow because I've crossed the line from humility into humiliation.
JAZZ: It turns out in coaching and mentoring in general, development of individuals, if you can help them find a sweet spot between their humility and nobility, that's a state of grace where they start to develop gravitas in terms of their character and balance. And that's always been my life. I'm always looking for that sweet spot in myself on a daily basis. And whoever I can talk to, I ask them, know, today, where's your grace? Where's that sweet spot between your humility and your nobility? We need to recognize our own value and pay it forward and that's what being noble really is about. But we can't afford to lower our opinion of ourselves so much and dig into humility so much that we cross that line. That's a very fine line between humility and humiliation. Who's going to see your value if people are just walking all over you? What difference are you going to make in the world if you lower yourself that much? So getting that balance is really critical and it's proportionate to the kind of life or the activities that you're trying to do.
KG: If we define ethics as being true to who you are, what if someone's self-awareness and motivation, sense of fairness is stunted to begin with and therefore what's true to them might not be what's ethical for the rest of humanity, whether that is a person in an ecosystem or a coder or a developer of AI that would amplify everything in the future. How can we use your definition of what ethics is in a way that protects us also in such scenarios?
JAZZ: When I first heard that term, let's focus on human beings rather than technology or corporations or whatever. And then it dawned on me, which human beings are we centering on? I realized there are a lot of bad actors out there and maybe being human centric is not the way to go.
JAZZ: That deeper humanity that we all share as a species, whenever anybody really connects into it and they genuinely feel that humanity and they respect it and they honor it, it's impossible for them to engage with things that are unethical because it would mean being in a state of disrespect to their own humanity. And the conservation of our humanity is the outcome of living ethically.
JAZZ: If you are not doing things that are ethical, you can expect your humanity to start to get undermined. And over time, if you lose touch with your humanity, and you engage with other people who are in touch with their humanity, you're going to find it really difficult to be in the world. Now, those people who are in touch with their humanity, they might be able to show you compassion. But most people in the world, they aren't that connected into their own humanity. They have a connection, but it's not something that they have full conscious agency necessarily to engage with. And this where ethics is useful because it can remind us of the journey, the path to go back to being fully connected to our own humanity. That's a personal humanity. But if you go a little bit deeper than your own personal humanity, you will find a deeper connection to the whole of humanity that you share, shared humanity. So these are layers within us and you can be human or you can be someone who is an expression of humanity. And those are two very different things. And when you connect into that expression of humanity that's personal to you, that's the first step to engaging with that deeper humanity.
JAZZ: The across space and time as well, that's the ultimate arbiter of whether your ethics is sustainable or whether it is just temporary or whether it just fits the scape of your little corporation or your little venture or enterprise, whatever it is, right? If you want something that's universal and that's eternal, then you have to think beyond yourself, ultimately.
KG: You're talking about three levels: The humans, An expression of humanity, and a deeper shared humanity. And that if we can get deeper, we can connect to the highest common denominators. Those would be timeless and not ephemeral and fleeting.
JAZZ: If AI can actually be in service to those things, then it can be in service to humanity. It can actually advance humanity and not just humans. If it advances the humanity within us all collectively, then we will move forwards into a genuinely more advanced civilization. Advanced on the inside, not advanced on the outside necessarily.
JAZZ: There is no separation between inside and outside. It's a continuum. And when you don't work with a continuum and you work with it with something that's on the inside and something that's on the outside, right there is your problem. You have a mindset of separation. You think that what goes on outside isn't connected to what's going on inside of you.
JAZZ: Wherever you go at the deepest, deepest levels, everything is a continuum of energy. Everything. So ethics is intimately linked to that continuum of energy that we're all rooted in. And whether you're using technology or whether you're just a human being having a conversation with another human being, if you aren't answerable or accountable to the conservation of energy at that deeper, deeper level, then you're not going to be able to exercise conservation of your own humanity.
JAZZ: The law of conservation of energy is intimately linked to conservation of humanity. And usually you find if you start exercising conservation of your own humanity, suddenly your energy levels change. You're a different person. The integrity of who you are starts to become much more robust. The people who don't do these things, they're the ones that fall apart sooner or later because they're not being supported by something fundamental in the universe.
JAZZ: The ultimate demonstration that your ethics is being true to the right thing in you. It allows you to be in a state of grace. It allows you to be in a state where you're demonstrating conservation of humanity. And the moment that you lose your state of grace, typically, that's when typically you start doing things that are not respectful of your humanity or anybody else's. And AI can really help with this. It can help us keep track of what we're being true to. It can help us keep track of that state of grace and whether we're drifting too much into humility or nobility.
JAZZ: Conservation of energy is the most fundamental principle in the universe, the law which rules all other laws.
JAZZ: For example, wherever you see cycles, you can pretty much bet there's some conservation of energy going on, right? And if there's conservation of energy going on, it just means things are not going to run out. Things are going to be sustainable. And in human beings, the three things I've noticed that we all need to maintain conservation of that are the deeper components of our humanity are our motivation, our intention, and our attention.
JAZZ: When people start stop paying attention to things or they can't pay attention to things, that's a problem. If people want out of motivation or their desire to or impetus to do things, that's a problem. If people can't form clear intentions to do things, despite the fact that they're motivated and they can pay attention, then it means the right things just don't get done. And usually the things that interfere with our motivation and tension and our attention are the equivalent of carbon in the atmosphere that we're all trying to get net zero targets met for. We know that if that stuff's there, it's going to change climate in terms of temperature. We know sea levels are going to rise. We know there's a species diversity is going to go down. These are all the consequences of carbon footprint on the outside. But there's an actual equivalent of carbon footprint on the inside of people. And it affects people's inner climate. And that inner climate is going to be something that's affected by three things. It's affected by emotional toxicity. If you go into an organization, a toxic workplace or toxic behaviors, you can pretty much bet that's going to seriously affect the climate there. Right. Secondly, it's incongruence. Incongruence is the failure to be true to what's important. Right. And you're doing things that are not aligned to your values or deep, deep principles, sustainable principles. And lastly, and incoherence, nobody can work effectively in a place where people think incoherently or the strategies are incoherent. So the opposite of those things are coherence, congruence and typically compassion when it comes to emotional toxicity.
JAZZ: If you have those things in place, if you minimize, if you get to net zero with emotional toxicity, you get to net zero with incongruence and incoherence, you can pretty much better. You're going to be in an environment where everybody's very motivated. They've got clear intentions on working with the right things and they've got the energy to consistently pay attention to things and they're not going to be burnt out and they're not going to be overly burdened by having too many things to focus on and starting to affect their attention.
JAZZ: You need to have the right mix of motivation, intention and attention for what it is that you're trying to be true to. All we've got to do each day is trying to manage our motivation, attention and intention. These are natural resources that we need to exercise conservation of on the inside of ourselves.
JAZZ: We need to change the narrative with feeding AI so that actually it can advance us in the future rather than to lead us to a place where the things that are the most precious and sacred within us and within our humanity actually end up atrophying because we fed AI the wrong narrative.
JAZZ: If you feed AI things that are unethical, things that undermine our humanity, then you can expect AI to then undermine our humanity. That way it'll work.
JAZZ: You can't connect to people unless you first connect to them through something that is of relevance to them, that's connected to their interests and their behaviors and their references. But that's just the foot in the door. If you want to see it on the table, you then have to start to speak to people's intentions and their priorities and their way of being, the things that they have a deeper resonance with as opposed to the things that they have a relevance connection with.
JAZZ: If you really want to trigger movement in people, have to have the right amount of relevance connected with the right amount of resonance and the right kind of resonance. If you try and get resonant with people without any relevance, people will look at you and feel something, but they won't know why this is important.
JAZZ: Social media and search engines and AI historically, most people will know this when it comes to search engine optimization, as they very much focused on connecting people through things that are of relevance to each other. They are relevance engines. That's what they are, but they're not resonance engines.
JAZZ: I built my own platform, which identified what resonance factors there were, but also appreciated, you're not going to get people to connect into that and work with that unless you do that through a portal of relevance of some kind. So I realized that relevance and resonance were needed, but we don't need relevance engines. We don't need resonance engines. We need something that is an engine that manages the balance and proportion between these two things.
JAZZ: These three dynamics of supporting something and reinforcing it, challenging it and trying to change it because it's reached its expiry date and we need to do things differently now. And lastly, having appropriate reflection to figure out the balance of those two things. These three things are critical for everybody's growth. If you don't, they're like, I've described them as being like vitamins. You need to get your three a day. Everybody needs to get their support.
JAZZ: We need to make sure AI is the agent through which we get the right support each day, that we get challenged in the right way in our thinking every day and what we're doing in terms of our actions and that we are reflecting on the right things too.
JAZZ: The people who typically had two or more of those qualities that I could go and get support from and challenge from, perhaps, reflection, they're like a superfood. They end up being my best friends because they had all those qualities in one person. But the bullies in my life, I noticed something. They gave me the exact same things, but at the wrong times. So they would support me and reinforce something I was doing that really they should have challenged. They should have tried to change and alter. Instead they colluded with me and reinforced that behavior that wasn't healthy.
JAZZ: When it comes to AI, I believe that the future value of it will come from its capability of identifying what support we need, when we need it, what source do we get it from? Similarly, with challenge and reflection. Now I can get vitamin C from an orange. It's much more difficult to try and get it out of a cactus. So just like my friends, there were some people who I could get support from, but they were just really difficult to get hold of. And it was hard to try and actually get some that would actually help me. I have to go to somebody else who didn't necessarily have the right support to give me. So AI, it's really important for it to identify where in our lives, which needs, what kinds of emotional and social intelligence through which we need to meet those needs and get support. What kind of things do we need to do that challenge us and pull us out of our comfort zones? And where are the areas that we need to think three things and at the same time, not overthink things and ensure that we act in a prompt kind of way where it's actually necessary.
JAZZ: All mentoring and coaching comes down to those three things. But the biggest challenge is identifying what it is that you need to do more of, what it is that need to do less of, and what it is that you shouldn't interfere with.
JAZZ: Behind the scenes, there are dreams that are looking at us in the same kind of way. And they're saying, today my human came true. And if we worked with our dreams like that and we built a relationship with them, then not only would our dreams come true, there's every likelihood that our dreams would actually lead us to become true to ourselves. And if AI can help us to become true to ourselves, I think our dreams coming true will be a natural outcome of that.
KG: How can we build systems that speak to our higher selves and help us come true and our dreams come true without us ourselves being capable of doing that yet?
JAZZ: People can sometimes mistake one for the other. For example, something that you think is a preference, like, oh, I'd like to have a glass of wine. Oh, I'd like to have this cake. They look at it as a preference. But in their minds, they've got to this point where they actually don't look at it as a preference anymore. They're mistaking it as a priority. And they will do everything they can to get that priority met. And they rob people, they will do harm to themselves, they will do everything, because they think it's a healthy thing. They think they're fulfilling a priority and it's not a preference. This is the difference between an interest and an intention as well.
JAZZ: Whenever people conflate preferences and priorities, interests with intentions, and they conflate behaviors with a way of being, that is usually the route to addiction of one kind or another. And usually leads to the undermining of their humanity and their agency and their self-compassion. These are all consequences that we'll see that are typical of addiction patterns.
JAZZ: When it comes to the development of systems, I feel one of the things that we need to do is we need to have frameworks which prevent things being miss, being misattuned. One of the factors that has come up recently is emotional misattunement, which is when someone uses an AI for friendship or companionship and they anthropomorphize it, treat it like it's a human being.
JAZZ: One of the biggest challenges that arose out of social media now is extending into AI is the undermining of our agency.
JAZZ: We can't look at AI as a friend. It's a tool. And it's a tool that has an agenda behind it. The producers of that AI, they have made it so that they get some kind of return on their investment. And they also have an intention as well. And they're looking for a return on that intention too.
JAZZ: When people work with technologies, they have to realize there are two kinds of ROI. There's a return on investment and there's a return on intention.
JAZZ: There are some things that are more important than money, believe it or not, for those corporations. And having control, having power over people's agency that then is channeled towards adverts for which they get a lot of money. That’s the way that they do things. Now it's not necessarily a bad thing. But you have to ask, all right, in them actually seeking a return on that intention, were they being true to the humanity within themselves that they share with everybody else on the planet? And you can pretty much bet the answer is no. They have an agenda which is not in service to humanity. It's in service to something else. So the future has to be one which is not going to lead to dependencies, it's actually going to lead to enhanced agency and more free will and it's going to lead to freedom.
JAZZ: When your will has some freedom, it doesn't necessarily have power. We talk about willpower, you can have free will, but it might not have very much power behind it. So even when you act, you might not be able to really make any kind of impact in the world. In addition to having will that is free, you also need to have will that has power to it as well and resources in order for it to act. And that that's what enables genuine freedom. A will that is free and that has power and resources to act, that individual who possesses those things, you could say is a free human being.
JAZZ: I'm always conscious that beyond the free will that human beings have got as members of the public or citizens of a nation, that free, amount, their will is free, is carefully controlled. Very carefully controlled.
KG: Have you ever had success, as a coach, as a psychologist, a scientist, where you've been able to reach to the deeper shared humanity aspects of such powerful players? Or they need not necessarily be powerful players, they might just be people who are unmoored from that shared humanity, such as your bully. I'm sure in your experience, you've met many other such misaligned people who are incoherent.
JAZZ: I'm aware that in a lot of the work that I've done, there have been people who are behind the scenes who are going to do things in subtle ways sometimes to undermine me or undermine the message or the narrative. And then there are other people who want to do something about it and are advocates but they just don't have the resources, the power, the authority, all of these things.
JAZZ: There are many people who've got titles and they have authority to do things, but they don't have the resources to exercise that authority. And I think this is the biggest challenge. How do you get resources to the people who have got the, not just the knowledge, but they've got the humanity and they've got credibility for them to do things and act from a place of wisdom rather than intelligence and knowledge? Because I know a lot of people who are very intelligent, very knowledgeable but their agendas are not benevolent. And then there are people who've got incredible amount of wisdom, but they have no power. They have no resources.
JAZZ: If I can create a platform where people can all help one another to the extent that you end up with a billion people helping one another. And I wasn't even involved directly, that would be a cool thing. And it extends the paradigm of the fish story where if you give a man a fish, then they'll feed themselves for a day. But if you teach them how to fish, then they can feed themselves and their family forever.
JAZZ: Our main focus in work that I do is about paying things forward. How do you build architectures to pay things forward? Because if you can pay freedom forward, if you can pay understanding and wisdom forward, if you can pay responsibility and duty and diligence and power forward, then you're not gonna have people who are in power, you're gonna have people who are empowered.
JAZZ: If you use all of the will that you have available to you to seek what it is that you wanna have in your life. Then the universe does an interesting thing, which is when you've run out of free will, because you used it all up, trying to seek what you were after, far from that being the end of it and you not being able to do anything else, the universe looks at individuals who do that. And because of the law of conservation of energy, whoever seems to respect the law of conservation of energy by using up all of their free will and not wasting it, they're a good example to use to actually police the universe as a whole, because that person isn't gonna waste anything.
JAZZ: It turns out when you run out of steam pursuing what it is that you're trying to be true to, an interesting flip happens. An extra bit of energy is given to you because the universe sees you as being a good representative ambassador for it. So it gives you extra authority. It gives you extra agency. It gives you extra resource and extra freedom.
JAZZ: You can literally create your own fate if you constantly use 100 % of your free will. Those that don't, then they're disrespecting conservation of their own energy and their own life force. And the universe doesn't look kindly on those individuals. It usually makes them extinct.
JAZZ: One of the things I put into my technology was to identify within an individual what is the center of gravity of their life that they should be putting their energy into that will sustain their will. A key problem was people's will is not free because of two or three reasons. One, their will is not free because they have baggage to do with their past. When you start to get that kind of increased free will. If there's less stuff holding you back from your past or your future or the present, you genuinely have more freedom and energy from across space and time starts to come towards where you are and it synchronizes with you and it coincides with you. And the outcome is that synchronization is something that manifests as a synchronicity but coinciding with you is something people regard as a coincidence.
JAZZ: There comes a point when the synchronicities and coincidences don't happen in a fragmented way, they start becoming continuous. Life just becomes one big synchronicity and coincidence.
JAZZ: Synchronicity is two things coming together in time. Coincidence is two things coming together in space. A synchronicity and coincidence together, that’s serendipity.
JAZZ: If we can get to a position where we can enable our will to be 100 % free, it actually starts to generate synchronicities and coincidences and serendipity, which overrides any power structures around us.
JAZZ: Our saving grace is that if we work with the laws of nature, whether we're doing it on our own or whether we're using AI to help us, those people who respect the laws of nature, especially the conservation of energy and how it works, they'll end up with more power than the people who've been given power.
JAZZ: When you're being true to yourself, you're actually honoring your own nature. When you're not being true to yourself, you're literally going against your own nature. And if you go against your own nature, then the laws of nature are going to kick back. They're going to affect your freedom, your willpower, your agency, all of those things.
KG: How can we as coaches, as consultants, as observers with a common interest in shaping a more inclusive ethical future persuade those who are supported by systemic structures of power? Your answer is, let's focus on those agents of change who are more aligned, who can and desire greater alignment, because then they become self-powered, perpetual agents of change, because they're in full alignment. There's synchronicity, there's coincidence moving into serendipity. And these agents of change are not those perhaps who are systemically blessed or endowed with power and privilege, but rather they are empowered aligned individuals.
JAZZ: If you look at a torch with a couple of batteries in it and you switch it on, it sends out lots of light particles in different directions, all right? And it's very illuminating. You can put your hand in front of it. You won't feel it, but it's very illuminating. It has no impact. That's the problem. It's illuminating, but it doesn't have any impact.
JAZZ: The same torch with the same battery, it can use a different kind of physics to generate light where all the light particles come out in synchrony and coincident and in phase. And that's called a Laser. Now a laser, it's light isn't all over the place. It's really tiny little point, the energy goes towards. And from that point, it's the opposite of the torch. It's not very illuminating at all, but you wouldn't want to your hand in front of it. It will cut you in half, it will burn you. It will make a serious impact on you.
JAZZ: If you want to change the world around these technologies, coaching, mentoring, don't focus on trying to make an impact first before you have illuminated what it is that needs impact. Because it's like, if I take a torch and I illuminate the darkness and I can see there's a door that we need to move through and I can go, okay, that's where I need to go. And then I wanna get to the door. If I continue to shine the light on the door handle, it's not gonna open the door. I need something that has a bit more momentum, more impact, more force. In order to open that door. And I can't use a torch anymore. Illumination isn't enough anymore. I need to move to impact. And that's where you need something like a laser or something that's got greater force and impact capability to actually open the door. What you do not want to do is the opposite. You do not want to shine the laser into the darkness and wave it around all over the place, not knowing what it is that you're cutting through or making an impact on. And then illuminate and look and see what damage you've caused by shining that laser randomly in all these different directions.
JAZZ: Sometimes you can't save the world on your own. You need to work with other people. Sometimes you might think I need certain amount of money to get certain things done. Actually, if you work through other channels, you don't even need to worry about generating money. The money can be given to you. And providing you work in a state of collaboration with others towards that higher common goal beyond yourself, often the resources turn up and they're not yours. They don't belong to you, but you get to use them.
JAZZ: When you see it actually happen in the real world and it has million dollar effects, then you go, okay, when I'm doing this for other people, I'm doing this for the world, I notice how much more agency and synchronicity and coincidence I get compared to when I'm just doing it for myself.
KG: As a futurist and a technologist and very much a humanity centered responsible transition advocate, what's your prognosis? Do you feel there is greater potential and greater number of people migrating to your realm of operating on what could be shaping a more synchronous future where everyone's tapped into their shared humanity and working towards the greater good, knowing that it's going to benefit everybody, individuals and the collective. What's your prognosis? Do feel like you're going closer to a more positive future?
JAZZ: I do take a bit of a Star Trek view of this, which is I can see a future where our concerns are no longer concerns to do with issues on this planet. They're to do with concerns beyond this planet. And I do recognize from an astronomy perspective that we are technically on a spaceship that's moving through the galaxy and it's got life support systems that we need to look after in order for us to continue our journey.
JAZZ: You were born up there amongst those stars and you're going to die up there amongst those stars. And when people recognize, yes, you're on this planet, but actually you're moving around the galaxy. And so when you were born, you were actually in a different location in the galaxy. And when you die, you're going to be in a different location in the galaxy. And this is the truth.
JAZZ: If we take that and look at what we're doing with technology and how industry is developing, I do look at it and go, what can we do in terms of our potential? And let's go back to the beginning that we were talking about, whereas you look at what the potential of an individual is and not what they could achieve. Wouldn't it be great to have technology to identify that and realize that? The next level up is to go, all right, well, that individual's connected into their potential, they're conscious of how much they have and what they can do and they're on their journey to realizing it, Now let's scale up.
KG: How close are we to technology not merely amplifying what exists, but helping us get where we are not yet ourselves capable of getting to? How close are we to having technology that can actually intuit and find that center of gravity as you called it that resonance and relevance in a positive manner.
JAZZ: One of the first things I learned was when you look at the universe, all the things that you see, they're about 1 % of what there is. And they call the stuff that you can't see, they call that dark matter or dark energy. And the 99 % or 95 % smaller level of the universe is invisible to us because it's in the form of this dark matter or this dark energy.
JAZZ: I've had to say to people that when you go and look in the mirror in the morning, I want you to accept that. I want you to accept that what you're looking at is one to 5 % of who you are. Right? 99%, 95 % of who you are is not visible to you, but it's there. It's in you, it's pervades you and it's there, but you're not in touch with it.
JAZZ: When you look behind someone's personality, there are two things that you will go through. You're going to go through that person's ego and you're going to eventually get through down to their character. And my aim was to identify what was in the dark matter of this individual. What was the ego? That was influencing that person's personality and deeper down, what was the character that was influencing the ego and was influencing someone's personality? Because these are the things that would lead you to someone's personal connection to their humanity and what they're trying to be true to, right? So that's what I built my AI platform around. It was designed to interpret those results, to take an X-ray of those initial results, drew, reveal.
JAZZ: You need to give yourself a bit more credit and recognize a bit more of your value. And actually in this area, you're being perfectly true to yourself and you're being authentic. If you know this bits of information, then you know where the work is, it has to be done. And you know that if you get the right proportions and adjustments made, this person will end up going from a state of elimination to a state of impact with themselves. They go from torch to laser with themselves. And that's what I started to set up. I did it for individuals first, and then I started doing it with teams.
JAZZ: The moments, synchronicities and coincidences start to happen, you know a chain reaction has begun. And it only takes so much material for that chain reaction to go beyond a certain domain and begin to affect the whole world.
JAZZ: We need to start chain reaction. And when it reaches a certain scale, it can't be controlled anymore. People will only have the choice to collaborate with it. It doesn't matter whether you're a prime minister or a tech bro, you're just going to have to collaborate with it. If you try and control it, you're going to get burnt in the process of trying to do that.
JAZZ: You need a certain substance in order to start a chain reaction. In the case of an atomic bomb, if you just got one gram of uranium or plutonium and you bash it against another bit of uranium, that's not going to be enough. You need a certain number of kilos of this stuff be brought together and have pressure put on them and implosion for the chain reaction to start. It's the same thing with people. You can't just go out into a field and find pure uranium. You find uranium ore and then maybe 1 % of it is actual useful stuff that you're going to work with. In the same way, you look at the populations out there and go, all right, we need to bring uranium ore in and then we need to refine it and enrich it. In the same way, we find people who are radioactive, full of energy and life. We're going to refine these individuals. We're going to enrich them. And then we're going to put pressure on them. And together, they're going to release this energy. They're going to release this illumination and they're going release this impact. It's amazing that the physics that applies to nuclear reactions in atomic bombs, that same physics applies to human beings.
JAZZ: There's a Vedic and Indian kind of mindset as well as mindset from Eastern cultures, which is that matter is the densest form of mind. If you take the idea that matter is the densest form of mind, you stick that into Einstein's equation, which is E equals MC squared. Now, instead of saying energy related to matter and light. Now you're saying energy is related to mind and light. Now the same physics that people have been using for E equals MC squared to generate nuclear chain reactions and atomic bombs, instead of releasing energy from matter now, you're going to release energy from mind. And you can start a chain reaction in someone's mind that shifts their perceptions and leads them to an epiphany or enlightenment and things like that.
JAZZ: I genuinely believe that each moment has accompanying it all the resources that you need to complete that moment. And when you start believing that, when you start believing that each moment has within it and around it all the resources you need to fulfill it, that's when you start looking at the things that, there's something missing, or you're looking for something that's not there. You're looking for things that have got nothing to do with the moment. So you need to stop doing that and look and get present to what is with you in the moment and realize by fully taking advantage of those resources that are with you, you will complete that moment and you will fulfill it.